Volkswagen ID.4: Electric Motor Teardown and Analysis

Sandy and the Munro Live Team disassemble and analyze Volkswagen's ID.4 Electric Motor!

Munro & Associates is currently working on a teardown of a Volkswagen ID.4 battery pack, and partnering up with SABIC to develop a pack that is constructed out of thermoplastics.

If you like the content you're seeing, please consider visiting our website or subscribing to our Patreon group for exclusive content.

PATREON GROUP: www.patreon.com/MunroLive

MUNRO MERCH: teespring.com/stores/munro-li...

SUPPORT MUNRO: munrolive.com/support-%2F-shop

MUNRO LIVE WEBSITE: munrolive.com/

MUNRO LIVE TWITTER: live_munro

MUNRO LIVE INSTAGRAM: munrolive

MUNRO & ASSOCIATES MAIN WEBSITE: leandesign.com/

Outro:
Music from SEblacks Audio Library [Aka YAL]
Music provided by RFM: seblacks.info/cold/video/e3OFvJyaoqxkp6Q.html

Kommentarer

  • Kaplan Design Audio & Video Solutions
    Kaplan Design Audio & Video Solutions10 timmar sedan

    Great Job with your analysis! If I ever buy a new or used Electric Vehicle it will be a VW! I guess VW will be buying Loctite Corporation to get the lowest cost on the Loctite! because they're going to need a lot of it!

  • Bryan de Paepe
    Bryan de PaepeDag sedan

    The number of fasteners on printed circuit boards is for rigidity to protect the board from thermal expansion/contraction forces of the electrical circuits/components varying temperatures which puts stress on solder joints and surface mount components which can crack causing an open circuit.

  • hoyospetrola
    hoyospetrolaDag sedan

    I dont agree with you. More bolts mean better quality and more chances or repair. Less obsolescence

  • Cancracker
    Cancracker2 dagar sedan

    Why would someone be interested in repairing a device worth a couple of thousands, I wonder?

  • g33dav3y
    g33dav3y2 dagar sedan

    7:20: never mind the burrs, what about the cracks in the casting?

  • RS2Diego
    RS2Diego4 dagar sedan

    fantastic video... but the guy with camera need to know how correct filming.

  • WhiteCrow Tech
    WhiteCrow Tech4 dagar sedan

    And the stator will be subject to unequal temperature across its cylinder axis ( eg top warmer than bottom ) after many civiles I wonder about metal fatigue and micro cracks in the cristalina structure … I wonder how powerful is really that coolant pump and how much energy it does take to run it

  • WhiteCrow Tech
    WhiteCrow Tech4 dagar sedan

    No loctite ? 😱😱

  • Joe Beltran
    Joe Beltran7 dagar sedan

    I own a 2018 Nissan leaf S I love it so much

  • garycsfunlife
    garycsfunlife8 dagar sedan

    Those fasteners on the inside are strictly for product life they know at a certain point those screws are going to vibrate loose when they vibrate loose they float around eventually they're going to come in contact with two things they shouldn't and there starts your nightmare it's just a way to have a guaranteed failure point New age products are full of them they want failure points so you have to buy a new one and you could look at it from a completely innocent point of perspective by saying they only expected this car to last say 170,000 MI so if they have a projection of 200,000 miles these screws are going to vibrate loose then you're completely within an acceptable amount of time if you're a car fails at 200,000 miles when they predicted you to buy a new car at 170,000 miles so technically it doesn't matter that there's a failure point because you already exceeded the lifetime of the product they're just making sure you don't exceed the lifetime of that product

  • rasch19785
    rasch197859 dagar sedan

    Maybe the Inverter will become a part of thier part exchange Programme, many Euro OEMs gmhave such schemes for cars in and out of Warranty to offer cost effective repair

  • Andre O'Brien
    Andre O'Brien9 dagar sedan

    "Noise is a problem with Electric motors"

  • YoutubeNamePlaceholder
    YoutubeNamePlaceholder11 dagar sedan

    Germans are proud of their tools including screwdrivers, so they need to design products to use those screwdrivers on 🙂 Personally I like fasteners, it makes disassembly simpler and safer than snaps which are meant for one time assembly and throw away.

  • Jeff M
    Jeff M13 dagar sedan

    I see a second hand market for refurbished inverters and motors. To design something so it can't be taken apart is going against the grain of where we need to be. I like VW's approach.

  • Prasert Buakaew
    Prasert Buakaew13 dagar sedan

    Hi.grntleman i known U are SHEER Tesla.,Tesla quality lower than all German EV.".U talk about this bolts it is Cracy!!"

  • Tony Blighe
    Tony Blighe13 dagar sedan

    I didn't quite understand how the VW got rid of the pump and filter in the Tesla. They are both cooled. Can anyone explain? Thanks.

  • Tony Blighe
    Tony Blighe13 dagar sedan

    Should an inverter should be fixable? If MTBF is really high and the cost of a new part can be lowered and its MTBF can be increased by making it unrepairable then, yes, glue it together. It's all about reducing the overall cost (and environmental impact) across all users. I feel a complex graph coming on.

  • Tony Blighe
    Tony Blighe13 dagar sedan

    The quality of the comments is absolutely top notch. A great many viewers clearly have a lot of experience. Respect to Sandy, to VW (for taking a brave decision), and the commentators.

  • Henk van Peer
    Henk van Peer14 dagar sedan

    Did learn very little… nice gearbox…

  • Henk van Peer
    Henk van Peer14 dagar sedan

    And in essence 🤣

  • Henk van Peer
    Henk van Peer14 dagar sedan

    Basically….

  • Roman Schmitz
    Roman Schmitz15 dagar sedan

    Great and interesting video, thank you for sharing! I don't agree about the fasteners though. You're certainly right when talking about screws on an ICE where there are hundreds of moving parts, crazy vibrations and great temperature variations. That's not a problem for a sealed off electronics component.

  • HitmanTheSwede
    HitmanTheSwede15 dagar sedan

    haha he workt at ford.

  • roger fleming
    roger fleming16 dagar sedan

    EU regulations just might have something to do with the fasteners. There are requirements on recycling and the right of repair. Sandy Munro might be right about using snap fasteners. But I do think VW engineers must take into account not only how you get parts to stay together but also how you can take them apart again.

  • Stefan Skoog
    Stefan Skoog18 dagar sedan

    At 11:25 - VW is ahead of Tesla by eliminating oil cooling!? I disagree, because the oil cooling is one major reason Tesla squeezes out 33% more peak power from their design (200 kW Tesla vs 150 kW VW iD3) at almost exactly the same weight (90 kg) and size.

  • Stefan Skoog
    Stefan Skoog18 dagar sedan

    At 19:45 - The "cutting bias" of the rotor is called rotor skewing. VW shows a 4-step skewing here, but linear. Tesla has a 3 or 4 step skewing, but in V-shape. VW's linear skewing will give them axial forces and vibrations in the rotor bearings, something I would try to avoid in the design. Tesla knows about this. Nissan is far behind. Also, rotor skewing generally DECREASES performance in terms of Nm and kW output, it is mainly a trick to get NVH levels to an acceptable level.

  • Pablo Montero
    Pablo Montero21 dag sedan

    Don't you consider that threaded fasteners make things repairable? Rivets and "sealed" fasteners seem to keep components from being opened and inspected.

  • SkywalkerWroc
    SkywalkerWroc22 dagar sedan

    *TL;DR:* VAG jumped ahead of Tesla in motor design, it's bearings are possibly worse, but they've eliminated oil pump, oil filter and a cooler by more advanced design, replaced oil with a dedicated cooler, their wiring is simpler and with a higher fill ratio, and motors have inherently quieter magnet arrangement... key complaint: Too many threaded fasteners - it makes fixing inverter possible but "nobody's going to fix those anyway" (self-note: the lack of repairability is one of the key complaints about Tesla, nice to see VAG addressing it, regardless of what Munro thinks about fixing cars)

  • Rascu Vale
    Rascu Vale23 dagar sedan

    threds are fine here in europe

  • R G
    R G26 dagar sedan

    there are cracks around the enclosure. those will generate mechanical and structural failure when exposed to thermal cycling paired with vibration and shocks. Were the cracks generated by you gentlemen when the unit was opened up or was there from the beginning? I only can assume IQC at VW should have spotted them upon inspection, meaning the cracks were not there and appeared after mounting the unit, exposed to some vibration and thermal cycling from the factory to your facility. This is incredibly concerning, and I hope VW will take immediate action.

  • dymsza
    dymsza26 dagar sedan

    I would love to see WV pickup track :)

  • Christopher Robin Garrish
    Christopher Robin Garrish27 dagar sedan

    Cracks or stress fractures in the housing? Burrs? Forest for the trees? 7:00

  • Reflected Miles
    Reflected Miles27 dagar sedan

    I have to say that the snap-together philosophy is much better if the discussion is about new or recent equipment than it is in respect to old equipment. Both with tractors and on-road vehicles, once parts have been subjected to many years of intense thermal, chemical, or other stresses, I prefer working with quality threaded fasteners many times over. In fact, some of the models of Ford products where I first encountered a lot of snap-together components when I first started working on them had such routine degradation that about half the time the "snap" was tabs breaking or the part itself cracking when any attempt was made to remove or disconnect it. That could make the time and parts cost in servicing it among the worst in the industry. I have no doubt that they're for the best in manufacturing and initial years of plug-and-play servicing now, but if we're seriously talking about million-mile cars, they're unlikely to be the most desirable in quite a few applications that far down the road.

  • Richard Kudrna
    Richard Kudrna27 dagar sedan

    What is your opinion of Spiralock thread form to resist side load helical walking?

  • Patrick Bodine
    Patrick Bodine28 dagar sedan

    Having "saved" several older VWs from destruction, I understand the logic of their designs and engineering. While I currently do not own a VW, in the future, I may be in the market for an electric powered vehicle. That vehicle will be a VW. Simply because it can be repaired. Among other reasons of course. Thank you for this insightful look into the inner workings and comparison of these motors.

  • Mark Haury
    Mark Haury28 dagar sedan

    This guy can't spell or pronounce "dysprosium" or "neodymium", and applauds cheapness over reliability. Sorry, not impressed. 🤔🙄

  • MrAtlantis95
    MrAtlantis9529 dagar sedan

    What I find is a pitty is that you have to disassemble a part of the engine before you an disassemble the inverter. And after that you need (I suppose officially) new sealings.

  • Ben Senior
    Ben Senior29 dagar sedan

    The right to repair is coming, and that's only the start. Product life spans will have to increase dramatically. The use of threaded fasteners is a very good hedge on that future - which might include component upgrades as part of the service behavior during longer usage cycles than we're currently used to.

  • MrAtlantis95
    MrAtlantis95Månad sedan

    That's a lot of aluminium around the inverter. You mentioned the Tesla engine has been designed for a 1 million miles. Is this for the electrical engine or also for the inverter? What are the quotes for VW for the lifetime of the electrical engine and the inverter?

  • Yoda's BFF
    Yoda's BFFMånad sedan

    Bob is Yoda's BFF and he is a little bit offended, but he throughly enjoyed your video. 👍

  • Tommy Bronze
    Tommy BronzeMånad sedan

    yes you want multiple screws through your pcb to provide multiple points fo grounding.

  • Tommy Bronze
    Tommy BronzeMånad sedan

    Cooling wise, WV only went for their solution because their motor is waaay less powerful.

  • David Thomas
    David ThomasMånad sedan

    Could screw fasteners be coming back 'in vogue' because of right to repair legislations around the world?

  • Johan
    JohanMånad sedan

    Vw design may look very clever..but reliability is big issue with them. To name a few, remember the dsg transmission, though looks like a very clever design but how much reliable is that? How about the ignition coils, sensors etc in their ICE vehicles. Low life span.. I don't trust VW reliability anymore

  • Éric Bélair
    Éric BélairMånad sedan

    Thanks a lot for all your videos! 👍

  • chris746568462
    chris746568462Månad sedan

    Completely dissagree with threaded fasteners. There are many ways to stop them from coming undone, lock wire, lock washers, pins... Fasteners are essential for future service and repairability.

  • Dave B
    Dave BMånad sedan

    Of course threaded fastners are service- capable. Seeing non- serviceable parts to me, means the company sold you something you can't fix. In other words thanks for trusting us with your money and screw you by the way. Threaded fasteners allow the unit to be disassembled later. With a little threadlock compound they don't come out. What engineers don't relate to is the future cost of repairs that the owner may be faced with. This is one reason, with so many plastic components in their cooling systems that I do not respect VW in particular when they lowered their materials quality to benefit cost of production. They don't make them out of plastic because it's a superior material to cast aluminum. Of course an engineer prioritizes design differently than a mechanic would like to see. Their priority is 1. make it work for a while, don't forget planned obsolescence and do it cheaply. All else falls between the cracks.

  • pignonMZ6
    pignonMZ6Månad sedan

    6:58 Is that a crack? Was it delivered to you like that? Is it consequential for the motor?

  • Michael K.
    Michael K.Månad sedan

    Nice review. But? Ford? Wasn't that completely outperformed by VW? May be that design has it's advantages.

  • CCCanyon
    CCCanyonMånad sedan

    Oh rail way in china? They just bought everything from Europe and Japan, why crediting it?

  • Robert Orr
    Robert OrrMånad sedan

    Tesla designs for 1 Million Miles and 1000HP. Vastly overdesigned for 95 percent of users. But the users have to pay the premium for it anyway.

  • Lawrence Fox
    Lawrence FoxMånad sedan

    Heard you laud Chinese for sight versus USA and of course you are right.Japan looked much same in 90,s they're still world tech Inovation power but baton went to Korea and now China difference is China is totalitarian state just ask spirit of Mao hopefully Chinese populace realize it's not 1949 and China is a world industrial power ,no need for force.

  • 人間
    人間Månad sedan

    メモ:11:10オイルフィルター、オイルポンプ、ヒートエクスチェンジャーがない

  • Heinz Heko
    Heinz HekoMånad sedan

    VW is a CAR maker.....electra company is like Siemens. Siemens making cars is NOT a good idea. VW making electra is also NOT a good idea. Nothing as enviromental frienly as a modern little 3 cylinder diesel engine. It is not full of rare earth matirials, it is very recyclable. Less cost to produce, less emmision with all the features. 0.04% CO2 in the whole atmosphere, 95% natural means less then 0.01% is manmade......WHAT are we talking about? less CO2 particles then 150 a milion no plants will grow. Now it is 200 particles per milion. In greenhouses to grow efficient they put in CO2 1200 particles per milion which you need to feed the world. Witholding CO2 is actually a crime to humanity, who will die of feminine.....by the bilions.

  • Hack Focker
    Hack FockerMånad sedan

    You’re an idiot if you think a snap clip is a much better mechanical anchor than a threaded fastener. I am an engineer and I know that threaded fasteners provide a better mechanical anchor

  • maria cornwallis
    maria cornwallisMånad sedan

    I have just orderd a hydrogen powered Toyota Mirai. BUGGER your EVs

  • Jim Somerville
    Jim SomervilleMånad sedan

    So is this the man I can blame for all the junk plastic snaps that break when needing to remove at 10 years, and rivets that I can do nothing about?? I certainly respect his knowledge, his point on the likelihood of any these parts being repaired, and love these videos, but I will take bolt or screw any day over glue, snaps, or rivets.

  • Hambert
    HambertMånad sedan

    Bleed resistors on the PCB adds thermal stress to the board and that can break solder joints and other problems if not done correctly.

  • Bert
    BertMånad sedan

    Japanese vehicles always use many threaded fastener and fine threads. That's why like there engines don't leak oil. And cars don't fall apart as easily. And as far as the inverter is concern it is great that if you could replace one part in it so it would be less costly to the customer for do it yourselfer. That's why Japan uses fine thread for better holding power and also stays together without the use of loctite.

  • djAmbush
    djAmbushMånad sedan

    German fasteners never get loose. It's more the case that you couldn't get them out. And we use metric sizes. This for itself is already an advantage ^-^.

  • Nicky Lacambra
    Nicky LacambraMånad sedan

    John BERDINI - Self Running Electric Motor+Generator, saving & Storing BEMF,,, No need any External Charging.....

  • whuzzzup
    whuzzzupMånad sedan

    > Why did we move to snaps? Because of cheapasses in controlling. Period. And using rivets like you want, should simply be illegal. > nobody is going to service these things This will be a funny moment coming back to this video in 20 years.

  • sam smith
    sam smithMånad sedan

    Those gaps in the VW motor are not simply to save weight. Looking at the shapes of the holes and where they are placed, smell highly of a Synchronous Reluctance design. Go on, look it up. OK, don't bother, here is a suitable video. seblacks.info/cold/video/rqasmqFopqeJkIo.html

  • whuzzzup
    whuzzzupMånad sedan

    Uhm, high-speed railtracks are tensioned before being welded together, this is why there are no gaps.

  • Richard Harries
    Richard HarriesMånad sedan

    An excellent explanation and has changed my mind about VW. Totally agree about frequency screw vibration but as the build is top down the space of the screw to come out could be sized with a small tolerance of the level above to physically stop the unscrewing effect. Lots of us engineers like to dismantle things and screws and bolts are fun to thread and unthread. I also commend you on the logic card as I totally agree with simplicity of components. Would have liked the motors reluctance to have been incorporated but appreciate that videos can become too long. Well done and a new subscriber here.

  • Christian M
    Christian MMånad sedan

    @7:00. Radial stress cracks in the casing?

  • Steve Rayment
    Steve RaymentMånad sedan

    Wow what a biased analysis, you kept slipping with information only available from VW. Do the analysis and don’t talk to the manufacturer, the moment you do you automatically become biased.

  • Rahadyan Muhammad
    Rahadyan MuhammadMånad sedan

    Hi. Do they submerge the electronic with the coolant?

  • Get Electronic
    Get ElectronicMånad sedan

    This guy assumes a lot about no one fixing this stuff.. can I correct him on this statement.?!?

  • Renegade Master
    Renegade MasterMånad sedan

    The hairpin design is beautiful!

  • Jon Wilcox
    Jon WilcoxMånad sedan

    Did anyone see that crack in the gear box

  • Alejandro Moreira
    Alejandro MoreiraMånad sedan

    VW one step ahead. made in Germany.

  • Bieber Ozinga
    Bieber OzingaMånad sedan

    Hmm.. Interesting. First time seeing any of these

  • Art Corsai
    Art CorsaiMånad sedan

    why did the coolant intake and return have to cross couldnt they have been cast and machined on the center body section and removed two seals to leak?

  • Lars Arne
    Lars ArneMånad sedan

    Did they connect the coolant Circulation to the interior heater via a passive heat exchanger? I think this would make sense for efficiency in the winter... Which makes me again wonder if they can heat the battery pack with the waste heat from the motor (bu then again the battery heats up from current draw...)

  • Zeeshan Ahmed
    Zeeshan AhmedMånad sedan

    If the ID.4 eliminated the Oil Pump, Filter & Heat Exchanger, how are they taking care of the Oil Cooling and Filtering of the Oil?

  • Sheran Naidoo
    Sheran NaidooMånad sedan

    VW.......very worstestest......

  • Richard Piatek
    Richard PiatekMånad sedan

    What is voltage and amperage in the motor? VW and Tesla.

  • Voiceofreason99ify
    Voiceofreason99ifyMånad sedan

    This is so difficult to follow - please get someone more fluent and flowing in describing this.

  • Malcolm Connah
    Malcolm ConnahMånad sedan

    Must be missing something… if there’s no pump what drives the oil round? If there’s no cooler, what cools the oil, and if there’s no filter, surely that is a bad thing?

  • Tom M
    Tom MMånad sedan

    I didn't hear that you looked at the roundness of the electric motor like you did on the Tesla and Mach e and you discuss this in your response, thanks???

  • Craig Tirrell
    Craig TirrellMånad sedan

    With fasteners in mind I believe there are several different ways that should be experimented , after all these years the same old boxed mindset is being applied . In my opinion it's more about hurry up and get the product out of the door . That female connector in the inverter for instance is installed from the top down held in place by compressed force . If you know how a transmission is held in place in a big truck like a freightliner I believe could be an idea for passenger cars . Anyways fasteners have been a thought for years in how not much has progressed with today's technology and I don't understand why . It would be great if we could get away from threaded fasteners rivets hold airplanes together .

  • Claudio Perri
    Claudio PerriMånad sedan

    good job

  • Ernst Lemm
    Ernst LemmMånad sedan

    Great design, nice video. I bet we get the 'old' stuff to look at. Too much attention towards the mechanical aspects. In a few years many of the electronics is integrated into chip substate level solutions. Lets start with only count the parallel resistors and capacitors, instead of counting the few fastening screws. Placing a large component on a PCB board compaired with placing a scew, not sure what is more costly in mass production.

  • Gheorghe Macovei
    Gheorghe MacoveiMånad sedan

    the "secondary capacitor" and the "busbars" together they make the EMC filter for this inverter

  • Dean Toovey
    Dean TooveyMånad sedan

    I don't where the German legislation is at now, but in the early 90s, Germany brought in rules that all vehicles hade to be returned to their factory of origin for dismantling and recycling - "cradle to the grave". I remember watching a video on how Mercedes Bencz had to completely rethink bumper bars to comply. This included different recyclable plastic for construction and special coding on the bumpers that identified the originating factory in case the bumper was separated from the car. All the screws made it look to me like the inverter could be easily disassembled and the parts chucked into the right recycling bin. "...The ELV regulation (a) requires automakers to take back end-of-life-vehicles free of charge via a comprehensive network; (b) places restrictions on the use of mercury, cadmium, lead and hexavalent chrome in cars; (c) sets recovery rates; and (d) lays down technical requirements for end-of-life-vehicle reuse and recovery. Hence such cars may only be dismantled and scrapped by companies that have ELV regulation certification...." Quick google: www.umweltbundesamt.de/en/topics/waste-resources/product-stewardship-waste-management/end-of-life-vehicles#end-of-life-vehicles-in-germany

  • killingstone2
    killingstone2Månad sedan

    Glad these guys are not responsiblly for some airliner, fuck wolksvagen!

  • killingstone2
    killingstone2Månad sedan

    Good luck with the cracks 0650, wasted engine to me!

  • killingstone2

    killingstone2

    Månad sedan

    Case broken, engine is fucked!

  • CoolllGuy CoolllGuy
    CoolllGuy CoolllGuyMånad sedan

    VW company is great. However Sir, your analysis & review are also great and commendable. Please try to keep uploading more & more similar videos & to educate us.

  • Steve Walker
    Steve WalkerMånad sedan

    What about teh cracks at 7.03?

  • Dagur Bragason
    Dagur BragasonMånad sedan

    Some electric engineering skills are needed here to explain correctly why lamination is cut that way.

  • CatchyNameF1
    CatchyNameF1Månad sedan

    I can see now why the 80's 90's was filled with crappy one use, glued/snapped together garbage. Nice seeing one of the pioneers in the field of creating cheap crap expressing himself. Lessons learned.

  • radarw64
    radarw64Månad sedan

    Sandy talked about the railroad track noise, and I remember a video showing how they weld the tracks together with thermite. That is the biggest help in reducing noise and stopping derailments. A footnote to this is that this is what was used to take down the twin towers on September eleventh, 2001.

  • aelonath
    aelonathMånad sedan

    Nice Video, but please stop complaining about that we germans use Screws. You are presenting a perfectly dissasebled product and complain that you dont have to rip apart that thing with brute force and destroying shitty snaps along the way. Screws are nice, you can disassemble things, which is good! Everytime i have to "use" snaps while getting a part out of my car or from some other product i immediately hate the person responsible for this! Like snap fit cpu coolers - yes its cheap, but holy shit dont use them more than twice!

  • manxman
    manxmanMånad sedan

    Really? Tesla is not global, no factories in germany and china?

  • Conor Townsend
    Conor TownsendMånad sedan

    Those components are required to be serviceable by EU law, including that the owner of the vehicle should be able to do their own service

  • Sounds Light
    Sounds LightMånad sedan

    God bless Sandy, enjoyed the detailed tear down commentary and analysis :)

  • Fish Dude
    Fish DudeMånad sedan

    Too much "uh".

  • Michael England
    Michael EnglandMånad sedan

    This is a fantastic video although only just about understand what is being said.

  • marty
    martyMånad sedan

    I'm making an appointment so Sandy can get his nasal drip fixed.

Nästa