Comparing Tesla, Ford, & VW's Electrical Architectures

In this episode Sandy Munro sits down with the gentlemen from 3IS Inc. to discuss the differences between the electrical architectures of the Tesla Model Y, Ford Mach-E, and Volkswagen ID.4.
Company Website: www.3isinc.com
Company Email: info@3isinc.com

Dale Koch - Director of Electrical Engineering at 3IS
dale.koch@3isinc.com
www.linkedin.com/in/dalekoch/

Sam Bellestri - Director of Architecture & Systems at 3IS
sam.bellestri@3isinc.com
www.linkedin.com/in/sam-belle...

Dave Warner - Senior Electrical Engineer at Munro & Associates
dwarner@leandesign.com
www.linkedin.com/in/david-war...

Contact Munro: sales@leandesign.com

0:00 Introduction
2:58 Comparing the # of ECU's
6:52 Comparing the # of CAN buses
8:20 Comparing the Usage of Ethernet
10:11 Comparing the # of LIN buses
11:23 Comparing the Usage of LVDS Channels
12:30 Audio and the Pitfalls of "Parts Bin" Engineering
15:27 Comparing the Usage of Fuses and Relays
20:10 Volkswagen ID.4 Electrical Architecture
25:02 Tesla Model Y Electrical Architecture
26:54 Ford Mach-E Electrical Architecture
27:50 Differences in Diagnostics Connectors
30:31 Which Architecture is Best?
36:58 Closing Commentary

Outro:
Music from SEblacks Audio Library [Aka YAL]
Music provided by RFM: seblacks.info/cold/video/e3OFvJyaoqxkp6Q.html

Kommentarer

  • Mark Persad
    Mark Persad14 dagar sedan

    Absolutely fascinating when you get the right people in the room to discuss a thorny issue. Top video, very impressive approach to discussing such an important subject.

  • Cheng Guan Teo
    Cheng Guan Teo16 dagar sedan

    No thrash talk but purely sharing the engineering details! I truly hope that America will go back to make engineering attractive again!

  • Brian B
    Brian B18 dagar sedan

    The dude on the left must be a goldmine. He dreams PCB’s, no schematics needed. This is so good !

  • agz163
    agz16320 dagar sedan

    That 80 amp fuse position on to he id4 is probably for the all wheel drive version

  • Holy Light
    Holy Light23 dagar sedan

    I love the discussion. Good to know which is the winner.

  • MegaScott
    MegaScott25 dagar sedan

    Cool video. however, Tesla uses huge 630A sand filled Fuses at the battery, which is actually a very high failure item. lol

  • 1970351C2V
    1970351C2V26 dagar sedan

    Two sides to every coin. More modules means the vehicle can be tailored to different option packages without having to make different versions of each module.

  • Mark Skeldon
    Mark Skeldon28 dagar sedan

    Fewer electrical component connections in electrical architecture must be like a building designed with more openings in its roof.

  • worldvisitor
    worldvisitorMånad sedan

    The vehicle using Ethernet, the reason is the speed is faster, then error-tolerant rate can no worry, like CAN Bus Off and so on. Ehternet should replace all of others protocol in future.for example, in 1900's we used modem, like 5K bytes speed to surf internet, watch video? make a internet calling? but right now, we can do anything. even a surgery. The only thing Manufacture worried is cost...

  • uoym eoe
    uoym eoeMånad sedan

    The enthusiastic appendix separately report because desire unexpectedly saw times a discreet linda. ugliest, inconclusive valley

  • Edward Denmark
    Edward DenmarkMånad sedan

    Thanks Sandy.

  • Dave Cronberger
    Dave CronbergerMånad sedan

    Little late on the comment. The lack of discussion on 2 wire Ethernet with PoE (power over ethernet)? Would seem it would help weight and get to 48vdc and improve network connectivity inside and outside the car?

  • Gianni Barberi
    Gianni BarberiMånad sedan

    It started very bad, you can't judge the number of elements!

  • BJJ and BS
    BJJ and BSMånad sedan

    24:08 pay attention. Connect the dots.

  • Strutingeagle
    StrutingeagleMånad sedan

    Are they using the RS 485 can buss protocol?

  • Tom Jesukaitis
    Tom JesukaitisMånad sedan

    Good smart dudes.

  • Michel Hedley
    Michel HedleyMånad sedan

    Thanks to you all for this excellent presentation

  • Pieter Barneveld
    Pieter BarneveldMånad sedan

    This is what we call the table of knowledge 👌👌

  • Katie Greene
    Katie Greene2 månader sedan

    This answered many of my questions thanks as always.

  • Kane S
    Kane S2 månader sedan

    Thanks for doing this! We’re currently at the investigation stage of looking at purchasing an EV to replace my wife’s current 2004 Mercedes. I’m a bit hesitant on the iD4 mainly due to Germans and there history of electronics. ( wonderful engineering, but!!!) She likes the VW mainly because some of the buttons still exist…lol, her words. I’m leaning towards the Tesla more from a tech prospective, and the fact they started from a clean slate. Again, thanks for the informative video, BTW, I tried to get her to watch, not happening.

  • Mikael Overby
    Mikael Overby2 månader sedan

    Its sad to say but if you want to know, you have to watch 1h videos and not 5mins. 🙌

  • Shannon Woodcock
    Shannon Woodcock2 månader sedan

    I see more & more Tesla's on the road. They are catching on. When Munro broke down the Mach-E's heat/cooling system and compared it to Tesla's and you can see how far ahead Tesla is and the 2nd killer line Munro said was the Mach-E was the 2ns best system he saw. OEM's need to break away from the parts bin and start thinking outside of the box.

  • ZEPRAT GERNODT
    ZEPRAT GERNODT2 månader sedan

    The “Lock Picking Lawyer” challenge with that center console safe.

  • Radu Cristian Dumitrescu
    Radu Cristian Dumitrescu2 månader sedan

    VIENNA TESLA SERVICE CRAP : ​@VIENNA TESLA SERVICE CRAP : @

  • Radu Cristian Dumitrescu

    Radu Cristian Dumitrescu

    2 månader sedan

    VIENNA TESLA SERVICE CRAP : seblacks.info/cold/video/f3aelXt8j5iGn2k.html

  • Mark Davidson
    Mark Davidson2 månader sedan

    VW flash update speeds are critical because they need a ton of updates to improve their much criticised software.

  • Chris Andy
    Chris Andy2 månader sedan

    thanks for sharing this @25:25 mins - can explain the Mercedes architecture? I read they have 6 layers for SW only entertainment/ telematics has access to internet

  • Sewa sewa
    Sewa sewa2 månader sedan

    USA needs Shenzhen type open markets where major manufacturers can dump all their extra bin parts. Then innovators can use to start up and invigorate the industry.

  • Real HIFI Help
    Real HIFI Help2 månader sedan

    I wish that you guys would also cover the Nissan LEAF more.

  • Real HIFI Help
    Real HIFI Help2 månader sedan

    Hmm, very interesting.

  • ocyogi
    ocyogi2 månader sedan

    Add Hyundai and Kia to the discussion next time?

  • C W
    C W2 månader sedan

    The level of experience on these Gents is measured in their hairline.

  • sheldonv8
    sheldonv82 månader sedan

    That was brilliant. . Much better than watching crappy Euros football.

  • な だい
    な だい2 månader sedan

    The incompetent tulip indisputably cheer because save decisively protect till a common calendar. cumbersome, alcoholic argument

  • El Foto
    El Foto3 månader sedan

    VW and Electrical should not even be in the same sentence without the word "failure".

  • Trey
    Trey3 månader sedan

    Copper is also an expensive metal

  • bernard wright
    bernard wright3 månader sedan

    The heavenly heavy hellish copy conclusively tease because development differently pick as a creepy composition. godly, private rabbi

  • Larry Finley
    Larry Finley3 månader sedan

    Hoping my 2019 Bolt will still be running strong in 10 to 15 years. We’ll see.

  • Matt Larson
    Matt Larson3 månader sedan

    I feel like you don't fully understand how auto manufactures work. You keep referring to a "parts bin", in VWs case its a massive parts bin. A bin that includes Porsche, Audi, Bentley, Lamborghini, along with others. I feel like you expected them to throw their best technology and systems in a $30,000 car. That would be foolish. In teslas case they started with a car that cost more than twice the price of the VW and had to trickle down technology to the lower end cars because they had no other choice. I know for a fact that you find different technology when you look at an Audi E-tron. I can also tell you that tesla has the highest warranty cost of any manufacture. This shows their system is not working as you suggest where quality goes up and issues go down. It's like you expect to buy an old Nokia brick phone and expect an Iphone to be inside of it.

  • Matt Larson

    Matt Larson

    2 månader sedan

    @Marc Temura LOL another clueless tesla fanboy. If you knew anything about teslas you would know that they plagued with nothing but problems. Even their best reviews point out issues with the new cars. Tesla is out sold by almost everyone. Teslas Chinese car is even worse. They even had to publicly apologize to the people of China! The bottom line is VW is the largest manufacture in the world. They have cheaper EVs than tesla, they also have far more expensive EVs than tesla. They beat tesla on every front. But i guess that will never matter to you fanboys who can't live without a god offal ipad to control everything, that is when its not freezing up! Tesla is simply a struggling brand kept going only by fanboys like you while the entire rest of the auto industry is pivoting to take all their business away. If you watch some other videos by Munro he shows how VW has built a far better car than tesla and they are only getting started.

  • Marc Temura

    Marc Temura

    2 månader sedan

    @Matt Larson Elon Musk is betting on these new waves and waves of demand that why even though his company is losing money each year. He built Giga factory in Nevada the largest battery factory in the world. This factory make more Lithium Ion batteries than all of worlds Lithium Ion batteries factories combine. The factory is so big it take 2 hours to walk around it.

  • Marc Temura

    Marc Temura

    2 månader sedan

    @Matt Larson You see Matt what you find hard to understand is that engineers at Tesla say we want to make the car are easy to use like an Iphone. Engineers at the other auto companies have MBA's telling them we order a million parts you have to use the "old junk" and put into our Electric Vehicles to save money.

  • Marc Temura

    Marc Temura

    2 månader sedan

    @Matt Larson Elon Musk has broken down Germany Electric Vehicles and not they are not a threat to him. Elon Musk is counting on new waves and waves of demand from "Disruptive Innovations". That why he is building one of the largest car factory just outside of Berlin. He hiring some of the brightest and best engineers in Germany to help him unleash those waves of new demand.

  • Matt Larson

    Matt Larson

    2 månader sedan

    @Marc Temura I think you are missing the point, you don't put $100,000 technology in a $30,000 car. This is why tesla is struggling to built a cheaper car. They only have expensive technology to use since that is where they started. Also everything will fail sooner or later. Throwing away the entire product because one part failed is far more wasteful than a few extra screws. The throwaway society that we have created is far worse for the environment than ICE vehicles.

  • Craig Duncan
    Craig Duncan3 månader sedan

    Elon musk is full of huffle puffle - he’s been saying for literally 6 years we would have full self driving, we’d have full hyper loop vacuum tunnels underground, we’d have solar roofs on all homes and still all Tesla’s have is lane keeping with lane change on some roads. With regards to the rest nothing. I think other companies could come up and expose Tesla for not really innovating as much as their marketing and ceo portray. He’s a hufflepuff.

  • hokkikokki
    hokkikokki3 månader sedan

    This is a really nice video and truly a huge amount of knowledge that is given here. Sure love these videos. It tickles my inner engineer to watch these. My only gripe here is what price brings to decisions different car manufacturers have to make. Now in late June 2021 Google gives following prices: VW $35,395, Mustang $39,995, Tesla $51,490. I do understand you can do bad decisions with a budget, like VW battery packaging, but to me, it's a bit dumb to not use earlier designs (like parts on electric). If u design all from scratch it has cost issues. That is just a remark, and not really meant to criticize the whole video. (And sorry about my bad language. English is not my native language and I have not been using it daily for 30 yrs.)

  • Dale Koch

    Dale Koch

    2 månader sedan

    We appreciate the comments and you expressed yourself very well. Vehicle electrical architectures are evolving, and they will continue to change and improve. There are times when integration is a good idea and times where a stand alone module is appropriate. I still like electronics in the doors, it reduces the circuits that have to pass from door back to the body. We will have a much better comparison of the Mach E and Tesla Y when we get through the teardown. Take care and thanks for sharing.

  • DjSokYchannel
    DjSokYchannel3 månader sedan

    In every video he blames fasteners.. clearly he never repaired anything ... good luck repairing something that was not held together by fasteners... and same goes for fuses and relays.. if something goes wrong with these efuses.. good luck repairing it. Here you just change one fuse that cost few cents... Clearly all this thinking is about using cheap plastic, that every mechanic hate...

  • Platin 21
    Platin 213 månader sedan

    Will we also see the new Mercedes models? I just wonder how they would compare ..

  • Dale Koch

    Dale Koch

    2 månader sedan

    That review is coming, we hope to do comparisons of most of the new EV's coming to the market. Great suggestion.

  • Paul Macgowan
    Paul Macgowan3 månader sedan

    I like the idea of the smart phone, how can we use that tech in cars ?

  • Jet Set
    Jet Set3 månader sedan

    Fantastic Channel ,Great Content .

  • Cam Moto
    Cam Moto3 månader sedan

    But what's your opinion on threaded fasteners?

  • Junker Zn
    Junker Zn3 månader sedan

    100 MBit ethernet does make sense, it is literally just two twisted pair, the topology is easily managed with switches (and even higher-speed uplinks if desired), and you can even run power over the same twisted pairs (POE). Since ethernet data signals are AC-coupled, a DC voltage for power delivery can be run over the same wires (the standard allows up to around 50V or so). So, two twisted pair gets you basically everything. In the controller space, some controllers are starting to get native ethernet (or even wifi, crazily enough!). Not all though, its slow going. Controllers like the MSP series of chips still don't. -Matt

  • Junker Zn

    Junker Zn

    2 månader sedan

    @Dale Koch I have also noticed some microcontrollers with wireless built-in. I kid you not. short-range wifi. No wires necessary (antenna is built into the chip... very short range but plenty for a vehicle). Though this might be a non-starter due to security concerns. I would expect that running comms over lower-voltage DC power might wind up being the future. Its hard to go wrong there... no AC to contend with so the comms can be AC coupled (which is basically just one capacitor), and just like wifi all the digital filtering and stuff trivially fits onto a tiny portion of any controller chip these days. That might be how things go. There is even a standard for it called G.hn which is currently used for home powerline ethernet. A vehicle would be a far quieter environment to work with, too, so speeds up to 100 MBits or so would be pretty easy. There needs to be a good chip-standard and controller support for it, though, to reduce the component count to nearly zero. -Matt

  • Dale Koch

    Dale Koch

    3 månader sedan

    It can cover sensors and small loads, you still have to run wires to every device and sensor and an IC for Ethernet will always be more silicon area than a LIN interface which can be daisy chained with 3 untwisted 24 gauge wires. The good news is you have technology that can help lower the overall weight of the vehicle. Thanks for your comments. We hope to do another session with Sandy in the near future.

  • Allan Høj
    Allan Høj3 månader sedan

    This was really really good 👍 I was just thinking, when they say that they go down to component level, is that just CPU and thereapacitor, driver, diode, resistor, crystal and so on) they aren't able to see into the software on the CPU so a lot of guess work is needed, I guess. Maybe it's better to call it qualified guess work. 😊 Anyhow I just loved it, please more of this ❤️

  • Dale Koch

    Dale Koch

    3 månader sedan

    @Allan Høj We do a little back tracing when necessary, but mostly it's a parts list and that usually points to the application. But yes it is a lot of work, but it gives us a great deal more information on where and why things were done the way they were.

  • Allan Høj

    Allan Høj

    3 månader sedan

    @Dale Koch That's a lot of work, so it is back-engineered include PCB traces

  • Dale Koch

    Dale Koch

    3 månader sedan

    When we do the tear down we document the IC's in every module and for some of the unique boards we go down to count Resistors and Capacitors of the various sizes and types. Your correct the software is much more involved, but we know what signals are coming into the modules and what the drivers are controlling so we have a very good idea of who is controlling what. We also have a network of experts that we interview to get insights on what operating systems are being used in some of the modules. Thank you for your interest.

  • M L
    M L3 månader sedan

    It's extremely interesting.. Thanks a looooot for sharing! And greetings from Poland.

  • F d
    F d3 månader sedan

    Very interesting views. I've worked in R&D developing next generation vehicle control system architectures for an OEM . . . I have a slightly different take, from the software view. Tesla is miles ahead of Ford/VW because of the software tooling which is used to create the control system, and thus the ECU software images. VW specifically is crippled with a software architecture that is long past its sell by date and is causing many of the observations you are making . . . why can they not reduce ECU count and aggregate control system functionality into fewer ECU's . . . because that's not how they have ever done it, and the tooling they have doesn't make it easy. Tesla on the other hand have thrown away the millstone around VW's neck and simply solved the problem in a more scalable way. Your experience is hardware, in the age of the software defined vehicle, software and it's tooling will be everything, its the thing that vehicle OEM's cannot do (they don't have the skills) but it's the thing that will cripple them . . . they are stuck in the past, unlike Tesla . . . time for these guys to wake up and smell the coffee . . . ;-)

  • Andy H
    Andy H3 månader sedan

    So buy the Ford or VW if your happy with buying old technology that's sitting on the shelf in the warehouse.

  • mr.MYSTERIOUS,YT
    mr.MYSTERIOUS,YT3 månader sedan

    the honesty

  • Clint Atkinson
    Clint Atkinson3 månader sedan

    I'm just a curious guy interested in my world and I thoroughly enjoyed this entire post. 👍👍

  • Stanley Meyer
    Stanley Meyer3 månader sedan

    Why is it that the Japanese electric cars that used current from the energy of water, basically a water powered car. Why not talk about it at least mention it. Why not? Part 1: the water-powered car seblacks.info/cold/video/e6KtyoOuaJx4g3o.html And part 2 shows the power generator: seblacks.info/cold/video/gGGK1JdmrX-Naoo.html

  • Donald MacLeay
    Donald MacLeay3 månader sedan

    This conversation is all on the engineering level, interesting only to someone who wants to make a million of something.

  • Landwy
    Landwy3 månader sedan

    This group is doing what every engineer should do when it comes to basic design. Namely...take away everything extraneous until you only have the basic function. Unfortunately it is the corporate advertising executives and non-technical consumers that demand widgets that don't enhance what the auto does. For instance, Mercedes Benz has automatically retractable seatbelts where the driver doesn't have to reach for the strap and attach the buckle to the locking receptacle on the edge of the seat. This is why MB has so many modules/computers throughout the vehicle that are just waiting to fail.

  • Constantin Eckhardt
    Constantin Eckhardt3 månader sedan

    What's about repairability? Is a failure in a pcb in the Tesla the death for a good chunk for their controllers 'cause they are so highly integrated? I mean the smartphone analogy seems fitting, so much e-waste 'cause repairs are an afterthought just because there is no pricetag on it for the companys.

  • Scott Stonefield
    Scott Stonefield3 månader sedan

    Very cool video! Keep up the nice work.

  • hitardo
    hitardo3 månader sedan

    Good video! It was enlightening on many aspects of these models. Why did you not include the Nissan Leaf? Nissan in the World, and also Renault in Europe with the same architecture, are a player in this market. Cheers.

  • hitardo

    hitardo

    3 månader sedan

    @Dale Koch thank you for the reply. I understand that there are a lot of architectures among electric vehicles, even within the same manufacturer or group of manufacturers. However, I would say that the original Nissan Leaf was a milestone in electric mobility, as it was the first available Worldwide. Its new version is also a relevant electric vehicle, as it is also avilable Worldwide, but also because its selling numbers are relevant. Again, cheers for the awesome content. I was a first time watcher, and I will stick here.

  • Dale Koch

    Dale Koch

    3 månader sedan

    Good suggestion, we can provide insights on a number of Electric vehicles. Looking forward to building on what we started here.

  • dsthorp
    dsthorp3 månader sedan

    It is impressive that you professionals are making the time for this video. Thank you.

  • From Germany
    From Germany3 månader sedan

    US car engineers talking about to much weight sounds a bit strange.

  • Brad Patton
    Brad Patton3 månader sedan

    Another late night TV Tesla ad you can also buy gem stones and Tesla vegematics. Since Tesla is so much smarter and newer and advanced how come Tesla owners have all the troubles they have with doors not opening and master screens going bad and not working correctly etc?? When Munro is honest no one compares but probably in the last year or so he has become a snake oil salesman for Tesla. He is paid handsomely possibly indirectly by hits to his site from Tesla groupies. None of it is convincing. The octovalve episode was a new low.

  • Jared Johnson
    Jared Johnson3 månader sedan

    Loved the talk!

  • Murphy Aldrich
    Murphy Aldrich3 månader sedan

    The blushing patch incidentally cough because toad rahilly match forenenst a clean curve. capricious, hapless shrimp

  • Chris Daigle
    Chris Daigle3 månader sedan

    Having each ECU control more like in Tesla means it's a lot more expensive. Also, you still haven't reduced a lot of plugged connections because the larger, more expensive Tesla controller still plugs into the same number of things being controlled like motors, brake sensors, door locks etc. Sandy seems to want companies to spend tons of money redesigning everything. Screws don't usually squeak. Clips do.

  • Dale Koch

    Dale Koch

    3 månader sedan

    Good points, one thing the Tesla approach saves is in-line connections, the front doors, front seats, instrument panel, Frunk, and headliner all use the Body Controllers as a junction block. So that saves some weight. I agree service is a concern with the very large modules and the higher probability of something failing just do to the board area and number of components, replacing those boxes will be very expensive. So as we said there are trade-offs with every architecture. Great points, thank you.

  • Luis DeTomaso
    Luis DeTomaso3 månader sedan

    Model Y is a porky 4400 pounds and you guys are worried about how much wires weigh? You could take the entire harness out of the car and it will still weigh as much as an F-150 pickup truck

  • Dale Koch

    Dale Koch

    3 månader sedan

    @Luis DeTomaso True, but volume is also reduced. Historically and today, the electrical system is sandwiched between the body structure and the second surface of the interior trim. So as wire gets thinner those bundles also get smaller and you can get between the two things that always have a priority to any Chief Engineer on a vehicle program.

  • Luis DeTomaso

    Luis DeTomaso

    3 månader sedan

    @Dale Koch Weight matters, but in terms of percent reduced, going to thinner wires in the harness would be an entirely imperceivable improvement

  • Dale Koch

    Dale Koch

    3 månader sedan

    Good point, but it doesn't matter, weight is still the enemy. Every pound has to be moved by the powertrain, not to mention for IC vehicles there are weight classes that drive emission requirements. Wait till the Lightning comes out, it will be much heavier than the Tesla.

  • Larry Ordine
    Larry Ordine3 månader sedan

    The old obsession with every gram of weight reduction applies well to racing but saving 10 kilos in fasteners, wires or slimming down plastics often results in cracked, loose or broken parts over a 15 year cycle of vibration and impacts and weather . When batteries weigh so much of the total vehicle mass, going too far into weight and cost reduction everywhere else eventually produces failures of reliability. Trying to remove and service a heat cycled piece of brittle plastic instead of a metal screw or bracket has caused many a tech to curse the engineer and bean counter who ordered it.

  • Larry Ordine
    Larry Ordine3 månader sedan

    Every engineer wants a clean sheet of paper and every CFO wants to use what we own and can buy at competitive cost.

  • Larry Ordine
    Larry Ordine3 månader sedan

    You might Explain some of the tech, not use abreviation or acronyms. LBDS? Etc.

  • Dale Koch

    Dale Koch

    3 månader sedan

    Larry, sorry every industry has their acronyms. It was LVDS, which stands for Low Voltage Differential Signal. Which is basically a twisted pair of wire connecting two devices that allows point to point high speed communication without generating a lot of radio frequency noise. I will try and make sure I explain the jargon a little better in the future. Thanks for the feedback.

  • Larry Ordine
    Larry Ordine3 månader sedan

    Nice to see ex engineers looking under the hood... On electrics too.

  • Daniel Jones
    Daniel Jones3 månader sedan

    very interesting and informative panel !! MORE Thanks, Sandy, keep 'em coming.

  • cfldriven
    cfldriven3 månader sedan

    The cheapskate loves integration which is costlier to repair/replace. Need to strike a balance between integrating everything into a giant brick that can cost hundreds or more to repair and having more ECU that are reasonably affordable to fix. Besides today's ECU unlike my old 1988 Camry seldom go out.

  • JL
    JL3 månader sedan

    It looks that you might not be quite aware of new emerging system architectures (Zonal architecture ) .New SW architectures goes hand in hand with that. Communication backbone is based on Ethernet. Amount of ecus is less important than how the intelligence is split btw ecus. Automotive Ethernet with tsn can replace A2B. Lvds for cameras? not GMSL?

  • Dale Koch

    Dale Koch

    3 månader sedan

    Good points, we are aware of Zonal Architectures, and the Ethernet or high speed backbone that goes with it. It all depends on the problem your trying to solve. We have not seen GMSL in a vehicle application, doesn't mean it's not on a vehicle that we have not investigated. If you know of a specific vehicle let us know. Great comments.

  • B Fretts
    B Fretts3 månader sedan

    Ya, why ethernet? Easier integration, way easier test, superior failure resilience, sharing sensor data amongst ECUs, faster speeds & lower latency, power over dataline (PoDL), better security etc, and etc... For example, add a new camera or display? Just add a new video codec. Allows far better supplier leverage for cameras and displays. Video can be multicast - Recorder, AI driving modules primary and secondary, backup display - LVDS cannot come close.

  • FanOfTLE
    FanOfTLE3 månader sedan

    Hey, Hey Sandy, Hope for my bumper sticker. And for our Plaid disintegration ...

  • AdventuresomeSoulEnjoyingLifeAlways
    AdventuresomeSoulEnjoyingLifeAlways3 månader sedan

    Excellent video! I so enjoyed listening to this panel of experts. The level of detail was perfect. I certainly have more respect for Tesla now. Their architecture appears very clean and elegant. I hope to see more videos of this nature in the future.

  • Munro Live

    Munro Live

    3 månader sedan

    Glad you enjoyed it!

  • Denis Vandale
    Denis Vandale3 månader sedan

    And yet Tesla has a terrible rep for reliability!

  • seasong
    seasong3 månader sedan

    With the chip shortage going on right now, they really should have an incentive to improve on their design and reduce everything.

  • Ste Da
    Ste Da3 månader sedan

    2:56 This is the key figure, why Volkswagen still fails to get their OTA updades running. Until today the still have to LITERALLY MANUALLY update each car, wich takes 8 (eight!) hours for EACH car! A kind of "Sandy" for software+electronics is missing at Volkswagen (Ford is doomed anyway). TODAY it is not about some bucks what you can (also) save on threaded fasteners, but it is about hundreds or thousands of bucks going down the hatch because of electrical and software misdesign. So the REAL threat is not the threads! 😜

  • Eric Lang
    Eric Lang3 månader sedan

    How refreshing to see 4 intelligent men, having a respectful conversation for the benefit of their audience. Thank you guys!

  • Paul Cole
    Paul Cole3 månader sedan

    Parts bin engineering is driven by those "genius" MBA'S in the finance and business office. BTDT. 40+ years. Great presentation, thanks.

  • fabriglas
    fabriglas3 månader sedan

    Gents is there a report on maintainability and reliability?

  • OrwellAgent
    OrwellAgent3 månader sedan

    Thank you guys for bringing the knowledge to everyone. i I could have an explaination for the ethernet design choice. First guess, vertical integration, when you use LVDS camera its signal is raw and very specific to the CMOS sensor resolution and framerate, so there is a need to have electronics/software engineer able to handle video stream on a FPGA or custom IC (I know Tesla design some very powerful dedicated ASIC. Ethernet IP cam are more COTS and commercial and the video is easier to grab from them with some regular computer and operating system. Moreover these Eth link can be concentrated into a switch (very low cost due to large volume of consumer grade chip that handle that). My second guess is the EMC/EMI compliance. ETH is isolated bus by design at each termination, wich make the bus very robust (100 Mbit/s can be routed for more than 100m) against ground loop interference. I had some bad experience using LVDS close to a power inverter cable, the noise margin was not high enough. I switched because the requirement was to route those signal very close to the power cable. My comment is a way to thank you by sharing the little I know about that specific subject

  • Michael Lowe
    Michael Lowe3 månader sedan

    I remember when they used to sell TV VCR combos and when one or the other failed, they were both junk. When buying a used car, I would much rather the systems be less integrated, so I can replace only what needs fixed. Integration just makes cars more into loathsome disposable appliances.

  • Taurus
    Taurus3 månader sedan

    It's strange how fundamentally different the Tesla inner workings are compared to VW and Ford. If legacy auto makers continue their current "off the shelf" path, I bet Teslas will be far cheaper and better in the future when they continue to integrate components.

  • Bob Y
    Bob Y3 månader sedan

    This is why Tesla stock is worth $650. Looks like they are ahead of other about 10 years.

  • Alaric Goldkuhl
    Alaric Goldkuhl3 månader sedan

    Thanks Sandy and team! This level of detail you can really get your teeth into. Hugely impressed with Tesla's E-fuse system! I'm currently driving a Hyundai i30 (great car in its day!) but it has frustrated me no end in this day and age to have had manual fuses blow several times and wondering "why do we still have these?" The ID.4 has the ICAS-3 board for infotainment? Tesla have infotainment looking to a future of FSD. Therefore customers will demand it in an EV, but having it without FSD? That is a possible safety nightmare! Sad to see legacy auto manufacturers still driven by marketing and "trying to keep up with the Joneses" rather than engineering from the ground up with clear objectives. Until they fundamentally change their cultures I can't see them ever being able to compete. I was impressed with some of VWs innovations on your ID.4 electric motor breakdown, but from where Tesla is at, such ideas can easily be assessed and integrated if useful. The reverse (Tesla to VW) integration of ideas at this stage seems way too steep a gradient for them to ever manage.

  • Zoltán Kozma
    Zoltán Kozma3 månader sedan

    Why are the decent manufacturers left out this show? What about Hyndai, BMW and others who tend to know what they are doing more then the 3 shown here... Tesla is notorious for overlooking very important car design principles that costs lives usually because the car malfunctioning at some point... stupid example but one should not integrate the infotainment system too tightly with the lane keep assist system. One definitely has to be able to work without the other and in Tesla's case we often see that the integration causes one system to bring the other one down or since everything is wired to the stupid screen once that is down none of the 'smart' features of the car can be activated... neither can be the climate control lolz.... is that still the case? I am a bit behind the curve on nutcase design :D Otherwise excellent video.

  • Dale Koch

    Dale Koch

    3 månader sedan

    Good points, we are currently looking at the Ioniq 5, and several other EV platforms. They will be subjects of future discussions. I have similar concerns with Tesla's current direction in regards to "Self Driving", they are placing too many eggs in the camera basket. Thanks for your feedback.

  • Ross MK
    Ross MK3 månader sedan

    I always thought I have no interest in engineering but when it comes to cars and buildings I can’t stop listening lol

  • Fredrik Dahlin Winscher
    Fredrik Dahlin Winscher3 månader sedan

    about the ECU number issiue, VW usually has the ECUs distributet to the specific component as each window winder is a separate ECU each door lock is a ECU so henc alredy there its like 9 with the back door. and you need a connector anyway at each electric motor so if the connector is on the motor or the circutboard/ECU connected the the motor is no difference, its the same amount of connectors.

  • Dale Koch

    Dale Koch

    3 månader sedan

    As the Mach E get's torn down we are going to be able to answer the questions on wiring and component weight and the number of connections. The Ford system will have more inline connections than the Tesla, but the large ECU's are heavy and use larger connectors that require mechanical assists to assemble. More to come.

  • george carpenter
    george carpenter3 månader sedan

    The left skirt gradually fit because wealth cytopathologically worry than a purring toothpaste. picayune, heady hemp

  • Bubba Fatas
    Bubba Fatas3 månader sedan

    Utterly useless! Wanted to put a gun in my mouth half Way thru!

  • WOODY RESTER
    WOODY RESTER3 månader sedan

    WONDERFUL TO HEAR DR. W. DEMING'S NAME MENTIONED AND HIS PHILOSOPHY...IDENTIFY, QUANTIFY AND ELIMINATE. I LIKE HIM BETTER THAN ANY LEAN STUFF THAT IS BEING TOUTED TODAY. GUESS I AM AN OLD SCHOOL ELECTRICAL MAINTENANCE SUPERVISOR (RETIRED '11) I JUST CAME UPON YOUR CHANNEL. VERY EDUCATIONAL! (AND ENJOYABLE TOO)

  • Joe Ennis
    Joe Ennis3 månader sedan

    3 manufacturers , 4 guys and the 5 whys

  • RogerWilco
    RogerWilco3 månader sedan

    Very nice episode.

  • RogerWilco
    RogerWilco3 månader sedan

    Lol. My car has 1 ECU.

  • George Nigg
    George Nigg3 månader sedan

    Not sure this guys really know what's going on!

  • Jonathan Leonard
    Jonathan Leonard3 månader sedan

    Talk about old: Put it on “Film”?. Who’s using film these days? REMEMBER: VW cheated on exhaust, related to cleanliness of burn. Can they ever be trusted? And Ford pushed the Pinto on us when it was a ticking bomb.

  • Mister Ed
    Mister Ed3 månader sedan

    As a non-engineer, this was a fascinating look behind the scenes. Thanks, everyone.

  • Shepherds Knoll
    Shepherds Knoll3 månader sedan

    Looks like Ford and VW have built in maintenance for the dealerships so they can bill EV owners.

  • Janne Kotka
    Janne Kotka3 månader sedan

    maybe VW uses soc cameras (as opposed to raw cameras) in which the soc only supports ethernet directly as an off-the-self component. thus the amount of ethernets. Looks like Tesla uses raw cameras and on board ISP in their ECU system to handle the raw streams.

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